Melissa Albers 0:02
I always like to talk about really feel good things, you know, in the self awareness journey, I just really like to stay on the positive side and stuff like that what
JJ Parker 0:09
you have today, I
Melissa Albers 0:10
want to talk about how do you know when you've done enough for an employee that's failing? So you can see I'm departing from the norm right now. But I really think this is a topic that really needs to be discussed. I just had this conversation again with a client this morning.
JJ Parker 0:24
Well, I think we've all been in a situation where one of our co workers, one of our employees, someone in our organization, yeah, is just not working out. Right? For a whole variety of reasons. Yes, right. It could just just, it's just a bad fit. Yeah. But what happens a lot of times is that maybe we're afraid to approach that subject, we're afraid to have the hard conversation. Yeah. Or there's, maybe they're just not doing a, frankly, a bad enough job to have a really serious conversation, but they're certainly not excelling at their their position. So it's like, right, how do you deal with that gray area?
Melissa Albers 1:04
Right. Right. And the other piece that you didn't mention that, I think is also part of this equation? Is your level as the leader, your level of guilt, and taking on the responsibility and obligation of taking care of that employee? Yep. Because I think so often, we as leaders think I just need to give them more. I haven't done enough training, I haven't created the conditions and circumstances for them to be successful.
JJ Parker 1:30
Yeah. And sometimes it's like, hope, like, like, Hey, you know, we're gonna try to put some stuff in place, I hope they're going to start being successful in our organization. And a lot of times, that kind of hope doesn't doesn't play itself out.
Melissa Albers 1:45
Right, right. So at times there are places where we aren't we haven't done enough. So we're not talking about those times. We're talking about these times where there really is an employee that it's time for them to go for whatever reason. Yeah, right. So how do we get past that or get to that place where we can emotionally be okay with that, because we always start to put on these big spins, right? It's like as leaders, it's like, we just have it all together. We know we got this people process, it's all the same to me. And that's not at all how we feel.
JJ Parker 2:16
Yeah. And I'd say, in our leadership roles. A lot of times, when we're talking about these kinds of transitions, yeah, we're often not talking about maybe moving somewhat early in their career on to maybe find something that are more passionate about, we're talking about maybe someone who has been in our organization for a long time, they are a senior leader. And that conversation gets even harder to say, Hey, you know what, yes, it's not working out anymore. And we have to make a change. Yeah. So there's a lot of emotion happening there. Right? Yeah,
Melissa Albers 2:52
yeah. And I think there's certain key criteria, like you're saying that, like, all of a sudden, that leader is not equipped anymore, or it could be that your business has taken a shift, and now you need all these new things. And the people that added value before it just it's not fitting anymore. I think, really, it's important to separate. What is your responsibility? And what is that other person's responsibility? Like? That's one of the things that I think about right away.
JJ Parker 3:17
What's an example of what is my responsibility? And what is there?
Melissa Albers 3:21
Yeah, its ability. Well, for example, like, let's say, somebody isn't following through on what you've asked them to, and they're in leadership role, or maybe they're just an up and coming leader. And you've asked them multiple times to do something, and they just aren't. So you keep giving them grace and giving them more chances and giving them more chances. And they just still are not rising to the column doing what you're asking them to do. Yeah, that would be a great example. Because then you end up feeling guilty, and you end up trying to do a little too much for them. Or I'll just do it this one time. I'll just do it this one time. But this resentment starts to build up and it becomes really challenging to work with that person.
JJ Parker 3:54
Yep. And my experience is when we have people that aren't performing. They also know it. Yes. Right. So they feel really guilty. They feel crappy. And a lot of times for us after we've made a separation, yeah, it's much better.
Melissa Albers 4:14
Yes. Actually, I
Unknown Speaker 4:16
would say 100% of this.
Melissa Albers 4:17
JJ Parker 4:18
agree. Because when it's not working both sides, no, it never one feels terrible. Yeah. And
Melissa Albers 4:25
yeah, and we can hang on and hang on. And it just drags and makes it even worse. And it's funny because it actually brings down the things that you're really excited about in the business to that one event that one person can just drag down the whole plan of something else. So I agree with you. It's like in this conversation, you know, and I'm always a fan of saying hire slowly, fire quickly, and not to be harsh about it. But if you are at that place where you know that person is not adding value, think about them being in a better place where they're feeling good about themselves, too. And as soon as you can process it Emotionally, it's time for them to go. And then you can get on to the business of growing.
JJ Parker 5:05
The other thing I've noticed is, well, a lot of times we have really good intentions with trying to help get someone from where they are to where they need to be. If it if they're just not going to get there. There is a whole bunch of collateral damage total that happens, right? Yeah, it's really bad for the team. The team sort of distrust right everybody. Yeah. And it's really hard on on culture.
Melissa Albers 5:33
Yes. And it's actually a reflection on your leadership at that point where originally it was on maybe that one person.
JJ Parker 5:39
So lots of good things to think about lots of emotions during definitely this period. So just try to stay centered and yeah, and thoughtful and Yeah,
Melissa Albers 5:47